It’s been 23 years since Sandi DuBowski’s groundbreaking Trembling Earlier than G-d, which uncloaked the lives of Hasidic and Orthodox gays and lesbians, made its Sundance debut. Since that point DuBowski has constructed a profession on the intersection of faith and queerness, social activism and filmmaking, at all times avoiding the binary alternative in favor of the “and.” This insistence is a bond shared by the director-producer and the riveting Israeli-American star of his newest function Sabbath Queen—a doc over 21 years within the making targeted squarely on Rabbi Amichai Lau-Lavie, a descendant of 38 generations of Orthodox rabbis. This member of rabbi royalty can also be the creator of drag persona Rebbetzin Hadassah, the founding father of Jewish congregation Lab/Shul, and a queer dad to a few younger children. And likewise a Jewish Theological Seminary-trained Conservative rabbi with a loving household entangled in a heartbreaking struggle again residence.
In different phrases, it’s sophisticated. Which is why Documentary determined to achieve out to the veteran activist-filmmaker to be taught all about his Tribeca-premiering Sabbath Queen, the movie’s unconventional lead, and embracing the messy nonbinary nature of humankind itself. This interview has been edited for size and readability.
DOCUMENTARY: Might you speak a bit in regards to the prolonged (two decades-plus) manufacturing course of? How did you first meet Rabbi Amichai Lau-Lavie? When did you start filming his journey? How do you know when to cease?
SANDI DUBOWSKI: The journey to create Sabbath Queen was a two-decade rollercoaster of emotion, depth, deep relationship-building, tears, and a whole lot of joys and oys.
I met Amichai within the late 1990’s. I used to be in search of individuals to be in Trembling Earlier than G-d. Everybody mentioned, “You must converse to the nephew of the Chief Rabbi of Israel, he’s from 38 generations of rabbis, he’s homosexual.” I met Amichai, we talked, and I requested him to be within the movie. He mentioned his story didn’t match Trembling, which was a lot in regards to the battle to belong to Orthodoxy.
Amichai might hint his rabbinic dynasty again 1,000 years. He was principally from the Kennedys of Judaism. He was way more fascinated about reimagining a post-denominational Judaism that was rooted in custom however manner exterior the field; one thing wilder, extra imaginative, not dominated by patriarchy and supremacy and a commanding God. We regularly jokingly say that Amichai mentioned, “I need my very own film. I do not do collage.” We turned pricey buddies and, years later, I started filming.
I assumed I might finish the movie when Amichai was ordained as a rabbi. At that time, I had filmed for 13 years. However then it turned clear that it was much less about him attaining a title, and extra in regards to the assessments he would face and what he would do with that title that might be much more highly effective. Amichai needed to make an ethical and consequential alternative, between two issues that could possibly be thought of proper, after which face the implications. As soon as he did that, Act 3 fell into place.
D: The doc shifts backwards and forwards in time, typically fairly abruptly—which truly parallels Amichai’s personal very nonlinear life. He too shifts backwards and forwards, endlessly questioning whether or not he’s chosen the precise path. So how did you go about shaping the movie in put up? Have been you concurrently enhancing all through manufacturing?
SD: Once we started the movie, Amichai didn’t want to change into a rabbi. He stored saying, “Artists are the brand new rabbis.” However Amichai is a shapeshifter in fixed movement, and he stunned all people when he utilized to enter seminary.
We had 1800 hours of footage and 1100 hours of archival materials and pictures. Within the edit room, we struggled to seek out the narrative throughline over these 21 years of capturing, some backbone that might knit the disparate parts of Amichai’s life collectively: his Orthodox start household, being a queer bio-dad to a few children with two lesbians; his “everybody-friendly, God-optional, artist-driven pop-up” Lab/Shul; his ritual theater firm Storahtelling; his ex-love Pie; the Orthodox opposition; his Hasidic rabbi’s spouse drag character Rebbetzin Hadassah and the Radical Faeries; his coaching to change into a Conservative rabbi on the Jewish Theological Seminary; the battle round interfaith marriage which is banned by the Conservative Motion; Israel/Palestine and activism.
We had been enhancing within the historic previous, current, and future . It required years of monumental Talmudic debate, deep immersion into pressing Jewish questions of survival and right-wing extremism, ritual reimagining, and inspecting the political ramifications of each phrase, picture, and scene. It was a minefield and really delicate and delicate.
D: The push and pull of inclusion versus dilution is a major theme on this movie—i.e., if Judaism will be something then it’s nothing. However this concept might apply to any faith and any ideology. There’s Amichai’s “everybody-friendly, God-optional, artist-driven, pop-up experimental” Lab/Shul, which appeals to the left; however on the precise, we’ve additionally obtained Christian evangelicals who’ve principally determined that political rallies can simply be the brand new church. So do you’ve gotten any insights into this “how far is just too far” side? Something you gleaned all through the making of the movie?
SD: I’m very pleased with Amichai’s brother, Rabbi Benny Lau, a distinguished Orthodox rabbi who agreed to be a part of the movie and who gave it a story backbone and its opposition. There may be political and ideological disagreement between the brothers, however they’re in dialog and there is a lot love and respect, even with their variations. On this poisonous, polarized time, we hope that might be inspiring for many individuals. Many people now are coping with critical disagreements in our households, friendships, and communities, and Rabbi Amichai and Rabbi Benny are position fashions about the way to keep in sophisticated and charged dialog.
Amichai is somebody who feels a visceral and fierce sense of injustice and ethical outrage when he sees incorrect, and he speaks out from his coronary heart and from his intestine. Particularly when patriarchy wields energy. However there’s a second within the movie after Amichai makes a historic alternative that causes him to pay a value. He will get quiet and reflective and responds, “I believe I am doing the precise factor. Generally I am unsure. Solely time will inform. 100 years from now, possibly, we are going to look again and know if this was a alternative that validates continuity or simply responds to this second and disrupts continuity too radically. I do not know. We cannot know.”
I discover this second of humility fairly a rare second within the movie. There’s something when a pacesetter can urgently advocate for change, and concurrently acknowledge human and divine thriller, and understand our tiny place in all of it. Amichai holds the strain of his brother and the 38 generations of his Orthodox rabbinic ancestors standing on his shoulders. He’s in dialogue along with his progressive self and his conventional forebears in his waking hours and in his goals. However this can be a span of 1000 years, a series of argument between rabbis over the generations, and who is aware of what they’d say if he had been capable of speak and debate with them? That’s on the coronary heart of Judaism, which is totally different than Evangelical Christianity—baked into the core of our custom is debate and argument and even a number of truths.
D: Since your whole profession has been dedicated to the intersection of queer of us with their faith, I’m wondering if there are nonetheless explicit angles or tales you’re eager to discover on movie. Are you presently extra targeted in your social activist work offscreen?
SD: After a 21-year mission, I’m actually excited to make a brief! I’ve additionally been researching one other shocking and wild nonfiction-ish/genre-blending mission.
Sabbath Queen has a lot potential to create change. We’re elevating a big impression funds to launch a world marketing campaign with the movie over the following two years, and we’re in dialog with potential distribution companions who’re excited to work with a filmmaker who is aware of their viewers, the way to attain them, and is able to work one thousand p.c. The documentary world is battling a funding and distribution disaster. I’m going again to our super-resourceful roots, when within the early-mid 2000’s we turned Trembling Earlier than G-d from a film right into a motion and made it a industrial, highly effective, impactful success. I spent 21 years making this work I deeply imagine in, and I’m going to make sure the world will see it.
D: So how do you and Amichai really feel in regards to the movie being out on the earth now, particularly with the far-right Israeli authorities presently bombing Gaza? Are you hopeful or apprehensive about how the doc might be obtained?
SD: There are such a lot of individuals proper now who’re eager for a narrative like this one. Amichai is a binary-breaker. All through the movie, he upends binaries—from gender to Jews and non-Jews to Jewish legislation—making an attempt to make all of it extra inclusive and insisting on reclaiming the oldest and often-discarded Jewish worth of pluralism and complexities dealt with with care, it doesn’t matter what.
He’s each/and vs. both/or. This second in time may be very polarized and emotional. Some persons are being pulled to the extremes on this difficulty and one-sided empathy of you are both pro-Israeli or pro-Palestinian, you both name for hostage launch otherwise you name for ceasefire. Amichai is about breaking these binaries and saying you will be each/and. His ethical and Jewish values name for a ceasefire, a hostage deal, an finish to the struggle and the Occupation, and a everlasting peace for Palestinians and Jewish Israelis. There are challenges with releasing the movie on this polarized international actuality; however there’s additionally a deep starvation for voices like Amichai’s who refuse hatred, violence, and dehumanization, and demand on a imaginative and prescient of shared futures.
Lauren Wissot is a movie critic and journalist, filmmaker and programmer, and a contributing editor at each Filmmaker journal and Documentary journal. She additionally writes repeatedly for Trendy Instances Overview (The European Documentary Journal), and has served because the director of programming on the Sizzling Springs Documentary Movie Competition and the Santa Fe Unbiased Movie Competition.